Stories From The Saddle: Pippa and Will Brown

The siblings after finishing first and second at Askham Bryan (Tom Milburn)

22-year-old Pippa Brown and her brother Will, 21, from Thirsk, have achieved an unusual feat this season – winning twice on the same card on the same horses! Will won on Get With It, who he trains himself, and Pippa scored on Alex Wilson’s progressive mare Hollywood Harmon at Askham Bryan last month and then again at Hornby Castle on Saturday, where Pippa went one better than her younger brother, completing a double on Jardin Carre. Jake Exelby spoke to the pair (with the occasional interruption from their four-year-old brother Fred!) after their latest success to find out more about them, their ambitions, and sibling rivalry.

Talk me through your career in racing so far and how you got into point-to-pointing in the first place?

Will: We’ve both always ridden. Our Mum – Joanne – used to ride in point-to-points and our Dad, Ian, used to have a training permit. I got more into racehorses as I got older, wanted to be a farrier but ended up going to the Northern Racing College at Doncaster. After that, I went to Dan Skelton’s for a year then – when I came back home – I started riding out for Kevin Ryan.

Pippa: I had my first ride – for Dad – when I was sixteen. We came last, but I loved it and got a second horse the next season. I went to work for Phil Makin, who has a flat yard, then had a season with Rebecca Menzies, went for a working holiday to Gordon Elliott, then to Craig Lidster. Now I work for Danny Brooke, who’s my boyfriend. I’ve had quite a few jobs!

Pippa, how did the association with Alex Wilson come about?

A couple of years ago, he didn’t have a jockey for Tanora, so rang me up and I said I’d ride her but fell off at the last! I started helping him a bit more, and riding out, and now I go to his twice a week and we work together.

Pippa, you've had more wins under rules than in P2Ps, including five on the flat. How have you got your connections under rules?

I really like flat racing, and I’ve found opportunities in flat yards. My grandparents owned Point Of Honour, which opened the door for me, and Phil and Craig have given me opportunities.

Pippa, you're in contention for the national female novice title this year. Is that a realistic ambition?

I hope so – it would be lovely to do it. But being the Yorkshire Area Novice Champion is more of a priority. I ride for people I know, and the horses go where they need to – I’m not chasing all over the country and ringing people up for rides. I haven’t had any opportunities south of Yorkshire.

Will, you're one of the youngest trainers in the country.  How has the move into training – and taking over as named keeper from your stepfather Julian Swinbank – come about?

It’s because it’s always been the plan for me to be a trainer. As well as training pointers, I’d like to take out a permit first, then eventually get a rules licence. Julian’s Dad (Alan) trained and, when Pippa and I decided we wanted to ride in points, he and Mum got some horses.

Will, a week before your first win on Arthur's Seat last year, you were dragged 100 yards after unseating from Cellar Vie. What feelings were going through your mind?

The fall from Cellar Vie was at the tail end of the race. I was squeezing him on and went for a long stride at the open ditch, but we met it wrong. My foot got caught in the iron and he cantered off. It wasn’t actually that bad – it looked worse than it was, and I’ve had worse falls.

I rode later that day but pulled up after losing my irons. I was due to ride Arthur’s Seat as well but thought it wasn’t my lucky day, so gave the ride to Pippa!

When I won on Arthur’s Seat, it was a good day, to be fair! My first thought was, ‘I’ve finally done it,’ as I was in my second season and had already had about 20 rides. Arthur’s Seat is an amazing jumper – on his first run for us, we took him to Brocklesby Park, and he ran off with me and jumped through the wing! He’s different class and we knew he had a win in him.

What has been your career highlight?

Will: Winning on Get With It on Saturday. It was his second win on the bounce, and he found it relatively easy, so I must be doing something right!

Pippa: I have two. My first double last Saturday and riding my first winner over jumps on Pure Surf for Victor Thompson earlier this month. I’d never sat on the horse before or even met Victor. He’s a legend. He’s a law unto himself and totally class!

It must be great both winning on the same day. What were your feelings and how did you celebrate?

Pippa: It’s good, isn’t it? But we don’t really celebrate or do things like go out drinking.

Will: I had a Chinese!

Do you have a rivalry?

Pippa: We’re a team, we do things together, and we look out for each other. But I’m the better rider – Will doesn’t like going fast!

Which has been your favourite horse?

Will: Jimmil. He’s always been my favourite – he’s my lad. We haven’t done much together in races, but he was the first horse I bought. I went to the sales, saw this great big chaser and thought, ‘I like him’. I ride him out every day and he’s great – he’ll jump from a trot.

Pippa: Hollywood Harmon – ‘Holly’. She’s unreal. She’s tiny – when I first saw her, I just thought, ‘oh’. But she’s got the biggest heart. She always makes the running, jumps for fun, and even if she only goes up to the shoulder of her rivals, she thinks, ‘I’m as tall as you!’

Which horse (not one of your own mounts) would you most like to ride?

Will: Camdonian, who Christy Furness rides. He looks pretty useful. Plus, I used to muck him out at Dan Skelton’s.

Pippa: Cullin Hills. I watched her win at Hexham the other day and she’s a legend – she’s so consistent. I love mares and always seem to get on with them better.

Which other jockeys do you admire?

Will: Under rules, Sean Bowen. He’s relentless and never gives up – he’s so committed to making his horse win. In pointing, Jack Teal. He’s so good with young horses.

Pippa: Hollie Doyle. She’s at the top of her game and her gender doesn’t matter – she isn’t treated any differently from the men.

What's your favourite course?

Will: I love riding round Askham Bryan. It’s sharp and nippy!

Pippa: Yeah, Askham Bryan. It’s brilliant, like a greyhound track, and you can go flat out! As well as both winning there last month, I was second on Tap Tap Boom in the same colours when Will won.

What do you enjoy most about pointing?

Will: The craic!

Pippa: It’s fun, and there’s not a lot of pressure. You see the same people every week, so it’s a bit like going on a night out!

What are you most looking forward to about the rest of the season and what are your ambitions in pointing and racing?

Will: I don’t think I’ll be a jockey much longer – I’m too heavy!

Pippa: I don’t know about turning professional – I’ll take it as it comes. I’m getting more rides under rules, and I’ve got my Category B licence, so can ride against professionals. I’ve got the best of both worlds at the moment!

What would you do if you were in charge of the sport?

Will: I wouldn’t let licensed trainers run horses in Hunter Chases. It’s not an amateur sport if a professional trainer can be champion (for most Hunter Chase winners trained). It dampens your mood when you see the likes of Olly Murphy, Paul Nicholls and Dan Skelton having runners against you.

Pippa: I have similar ideas and think there should be more point-to-point races that exclude trainers associated with licensed yards. And I’d open up the Maiden races and be a bit more like Ireland – rather than just have one Maiden with lots of entries, I’d have different types.

What are your non-horsey hobbies?

Pippa: I’m belong to the Thirsk Young Farmers, and we meet every Tuesday, doing things like going bowling. It’s not just about having fun though – we raise money for charity.

Will: I don’t have any hobbies – just horses!